|
|
Post by sytze on Jun 12, 2017 4:39:06 GMT
Hi,
Normally I would not care about posting, but I consider this so much of an issue that it's worth it.
Some of you may have noticed lately that there is an increase in people (mostly newer players) building "casino's". They then proceed to advertise their casino's in chat, to which once again mostly new players respond.
In my opinion this should not be acceptable for several reasons.
One of these reasons is quite simple the fact that this is technically not allowed by most countries, here Im not talking about the whole issue of needing a gambling permit as this is obviously ridiculous, but I am going to mention the age restriction.
Simplex and some staff members in particular pride themselves on this server being a server for all ages. As most of you will know, the majority of countries have laws restricting gambling to 16 or 18+. Not only because of the person gambling having to be responsible, also because of the dangers of addiction etc.
The second reason is more game related. It is literally spammy as hell. I understand that staff can't always be online, and that's only normal. However it is truly extremely annoying when there's two or more people shouting in chat "blah blah casino open, come gamble your whatever" every 30 seconds.
Finally in case a ban is not possible or not something you wish to enforce, there should be some kind of regulation. In the current system there is no regulation whatsoever, allowing players with not so honest intentions to build a "casino", have people gamble there but instead of them actually ever having an actual chance of winning just lose everything simply because the so called casino is just a hopper, some flashing lights and nothing else (I dont understand redstone or all other systems, so this is just an example).
Ofcourse it partially is people their own responsibility, but that applies to many rules and regulations on the server, and I truly believe that a ban on gambling will improve the enjoyment for everyone playing on the server.
Thanks for reading.
|
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2017 4:57:49 GMT
Well this feels like a post without much thought put into it to me.
The reason there are strict laws about this in real life is because it involves real money exchanges and people that have a gambling addiction often continue to gamble hoping to get rid of their debt but end up in even more debt. This is a video game, and gambling in it involves no real money what so ever in this case, so this seems like a silly argument to me.
Being spammy with advertising a service (in this case a casino) or goods is a totally different issue in itself. If it's too frequently we can always warn and/or mute players, and you can always /ignore them.
Edit: So let me ask this: Aside from the fact that people won't advertise it in chat, how do would banning this improve the enjoyment for everyone on the server?
|
|
|
|
Post by sytze on Jun 12, 2017 5:09:29 GMT
Well this feels like a post without much thought put into it to me. The reason there are strict laws about this in real life is because it involves real money exchanges and people that have a gambling addiction often continue to gamble hoping to get rid of their debt but end up in even more debt. This is a video game, and gambling in it involves no real money what so ever in this case, so this seems like a silly argument to me. Being spammy with advertising a service (in this case a casino) or goods is a totally different issue in itself. If it's too frequently we can always warn and/or mute players, and you can always /ignore them. Regardless of whether the gambling is real gambling or simulated gambling, I would like to redirect you to for example the ESRB ratings, which as soon as a game contains simulated gambling, the rating increases to Teen or 13+. Otherwise there are various examples of lawsuits regarding gambling in games in regards to enabling minors to gamble (CSGO skin gambling being the most common one). It may seem as a pointless or silly argument in your eyes, but that does not change the fact that it could be considered illegal by law. Those laws also do not exist solely in regards to actual money debts, but in particular to protect minors from addictive and possibly dangerous behaviour. |
|
|
|
Post by Daku on Jun 12, 2017 5:13:38 GMT
I get what you're trying to say but...
Killing people is against real life law yet the game allows it. Of course, there's a rule on the server that there's no pking in areas that aren't PvP, but that's because pking can actually let others set a player back. All gambling can do is render the person broke but that's on their own accord, and that's basically like how one chooses to risk dying in PvP (which is very much allowed).
Of course there are cases where people are cheated of their money, but there are cheaters in things like PvP too and that isn't really the fault of gambling in general. That's on the person who's cheating and they should/will be punished.
There are those who seek loopholes and cracks within rule systems. It isn't just gambling. That's what the staff is for.
The assumption that these casinos are just scammers is understandable. Heck, I'd steer clear of anything that looks shady, but there are others who genuinely put good work into their slots. boom being an example despite his casino being closed due to the lack of traffic (as far as I know).
The spam* issue I don't see whatsoever. Everyone knows spam gets a mute and I have never seen any chatbox filling advertising from anything at all related to casinos. Of course, people do advertise but not at all in the way you describe it as. I feel like that one is an exaggeration.
I guess I'm a bit annoyed as to how you want to remove the idea of gambling in general. I don't even own a casino but you shouldn't destroy a whole batch just because of a few bad apples. The staff are here to keep the bad apples at bay. I mean, regulations are good, but things like that come as a given. One does not simply cheat or steal and get away with it.
|
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2017 5:19:07 GMT
Yeah, I get that the server should not lead people (especially minors) towards gambling, but I still feel like this is a non-issue to be honest. The CSGO skin ordeal involved real money exchanges as well, which was why it was such a big deal, if I recall correctly. 13+ sounds like the general moderation guideline on this server to me. So yeah, there's that.
|
|
|
|
Post by sytze on Jun 12, 2017 5:27:39 GMT
Yet othse things which are strictly regulated for lesser reasons. Just for examples purposes chatting about sex usually results in a warning rather quickly if staff is online only because "the server should be suitable for all ages". Yet that is not as damaging as gambling is. There is a strong double standard there where one thing is not allowed, going as far as telling people who wrote in game books with mature content to keep them private, whilst gambling, which is just as tightly if not stricter regulated in most countries is suddenly allowed?
In regards to saying that people will try to abuse loopholes and cracks within any system, thats why preventive measures are in place to lower the chance of such things happening, making the shopping district harder to access for new players for example to prevent theft. On one hand abuse is being prevented, whilst in the case of gambling it's not because "staff can fix it anyway"? That's not really a good view on how to do things in my opinion, that's basically like saying you dont need to prevent denting your car, because you can get it fixed anyway.
Regardless, if neither staff nor players feel this has to be regulated at all I wont further waste my or anyones time trying to make a point.
|
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2017 5:41:10 GMT
"chatting about sex"? The only close cases to this I've seen is when people are being plain inappropriate with what they say, not having a conversation about sex - which, for all intents and purposes, a public chat in a video game is anything but the place to discuss - unlike a service you provide in that video game's public chat, even if that service is frowned upon.
Once again, this is a video game. Staff is here to keep things as fun as possible for as many people as possible (call the result of that double standards if you want), not to dictate how you should live your life.
Anyway, I personally really don't see this as an issue, but maybe that's just me. (If it ain't broke don't fix it, I guess?)
|
|
|
|
Post by JavaNinja on Jun 12, 2017 6:18:38 GMT
For what it's worth (which I presume will be "not much"), I agree that -- IF THIS SERVER IS IN THEORY, "FAMILY FRIENDLY", INCLUDING CHILDREN (i.e. 10-12 years old, as well as teens and adults) -- then casinos are probably not a fit. Casinos presume that you are capable of mature judgement and knowing how much you can afford to lose, and when to quit. Children, in general, are presumed to NOT be equipped yet to make those judgement calls.
Note that I am deliberately not addressing the issues of whether the casinos are rigged or honest; the spamming advertisement in chat; or any of the other points which Dark_Sytze raised.
It doesn't matter that the wealth ingame is imaginary -- i.e. as (not) real as the armor, weapons, and all the other stuff ingame. However, the time and effort to acquire wealth ingame is VERY real. So if some kid has his/her diamonds stolen, the pain of theft is quite real even if the diamonds are imaginary.
And by "stolen", in this case of course I simply mean "lost due to lacking the judgement to not gamble them away".
There's a reason we don't allow card sharks to set up a table on school playgrounds. It's pretty much straight up theft. There's a reason there's a saying, "As easy as taking candy from a baby."
Given that there's no way to set an age limit for any activities in game -- therefore there's no way to restrict children's access to casinos -- I agree that they probably should not be a fixture of Simplex. But ONLY if we agree that this server is for ALL AGES, INCLUDING CHILDREN.
If I'm wrong about that -- if "No, this server is not intended for children" (which seems to be the case, but that's another discussion) -- then my argument doesn't hold water. I'd want to hear from Meehan_Miner and Veester in particular on this point -- since all other points in this discussion hinge on it (in my opinion).
(my two cents)
|
|
|
|
Post by Kitty on Jun 12, 2017 7:00:41 GMT
As a mother of a 9 year old, soon to be 10 at the end of the month, if she had wasted all her diamonds at a casino on our server it would just be a good learning experience for her. Kids learn from experiences whether they are learned the hard way or not. now im not much of a child anymore but i can say that I still remember it very well. You know what I did when my parents said I couldn't see my then boyfriend? Went behind their backs and did it anyways. You know what people are going to do when we tell them not to do something? THEY'LL DO IT ANYWAYS. afk fish farms? still an issue. Xraying? still a problem. there will be rules breakers at every turn. this wouldn't be any different. we can keep track of the spam in chat. "Stupid kids will be stupid kids till the stupid is beat out of them by life." -Grandma Kitty 2017  |
|
|
|
Post by JavaNinja on Jun 12, 2017 7:15:28 GMT
Well... if it's a rough-and-tumble place for "learning experiences", then why is theft forbidden? Why do we punish thieves? Why do we return the stolen goods? Why do we not just tell the victims, "Hey, it was a learning experience. Be glad it didn't happen in real life."?
If theft is wrong, then how is convincing kids to play a game which is stacked against them -- and likely (but not certain) to take away their earnings -- OK?
|
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2017 8:00:29 GMT
For once your argument made no sense there Java.
The difference here is that the thief is in the wrong, not the shop owner. It's also the shop owner that gets their items returned and the thief that gets punished. The one in the wrong should consider it a learning experience, and you'd tell the one in the wrong that. Not the victim that is the shop owner.
With gambling the victim is the one that did it to themselves. With a shop the victim did not do it to themselves as it's a 'give X receive Y' deal, and in case of theft it becomes a 'gave X received nothing at all' deal. With gambling you go into it knowing what gambling is, whether you win or lose, in both cases you 'gave X and received Y'.
No one is convincing anyone to gamble, it's an invitation saying 'if you want to, here is the place'.
A casino owner convincing someone to that doesn't know what they're getting into to gamble is wrong, but a shop owner convincing someone that doesn't know what they're getting into to buy something is equally wrong.
To continue what I briefly touched on in my last post:
Banning gambling when it's not an issue (and will likely never become an issue as far as I see it going) is pointless. It would be taking away some people's fun while no one was harmed because of it. It's like banning drones at a park because it's possible that it could crash into someone and harm them. If people use it as a tool to harm someone, sure, but if not and no one has been harmed, don't ban them. Instead, ban the people that are upto no good with them. Moderation as opposed to dictation.
|
|
jash
New Member
Posts: 7 
|
Post by jash on Jun 12, 2017 11:08:04 GMT
TBH Veil just wants casinos to be there so he can spend all his excess amount of diamonds on it, like if you agree to this.
|
|
|
|
Post by Daku on Jun 12, 2017 11:21:41 GMT
Veil doesn't even need the prizes in the casinos. He's probably already got ten times the casino's prize pool.
He spins it for the stimulus he gets when he activates the machine.
Just like how I crack open a cold one just for the sake of cracking it open. Yet, then again, is it even a cold one if I don't do it for or with the boys?
|
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2017 14:00:21 GMT
Can you guys keep it on topic please? This is not the place to shitpost.
|
|
|
|
Post by JavaNinja on Jun 12, 2017 15:56:48 GMT
Veil said: "With gambling the victim is the one that did it to themselves. ... you go into it knowing what gambling is..."
Really? Do kids -- younger kids -- really? That's my point.
Back to my made-up example: if a card shark sets up a table next to a school playground and fleeces the kids of their lunch money, by your reasoning he did nothing wrong, and the kids did this to themselves. But I think most of us would agree that the card shark was in the wrong, because there is generally no assumption that the kids would understand what they were getting into. Teenagers, adults? Sure. Caveat emptor. Kids? Not so much. That's the central point of everything I said above.
Does that make any more sense now?
|
|
