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Post by squee755 on Apr 2, 2017 17:48:23 GMT
Hi all,
So I've recently had issues with theft in my shop in the Shopping District. I know, it happens, and with most stuff I wouldn't care because the all powerful mods and magic rollback can fix it and make it all better, right? Well, that's what I was told, which leads to one of the reasons why I'm making this thread today.
Turns out rollback can't replace enchanted items, including tools and books. Turns out mods can't replace said items either. Also turns out I have to get robbed 3 times within 3 days for a total of about 7 enchanted tools and 1 book before I learn this. Maybe this is one of those things that everyone knows and I'm just the server noob who should have known better, but I was told by multiple people when I was setting up my shop that stolen good could be replaced. So kinda frustrating, cuz lets be real here... diamond tools with Efficiency 4 don't exactly grow on MC trees.
I would like to thank Kitty for giving me the emerald reimbursement for the first few tools that were stolen from me (twice) that I was able to rebuy from my villagers. I wish I had understood that that was literally the best that could be done or I wouldn't have continued selling that way. With all of the craziness that was going on that day, I thought it was just the fastest and most convenient solution. Lesson learned the hard way I guess.
So my suggestion to the mods... You might want to give new shop owners full disclaimers about what you can't replace and discourage them from using the trust-based system for selling non-replaceable items.
Which leads me to my second point: is there really no better way to run shops on servers? Can mods not be given access to Creative Mode to replace everything? Is there a server download that can make shopping more reliable and secure? It seems like the Shopping District is such a popular feature of the server, and yet it causes so much trouble for mods, shop owners and the occasional player who somehow gets wrongfully accused of stealing. I mean, I can't be the only one who gets frustrated by the stealing, right? No better solutions? Anyone?
Thanks for listening... Overall, I really enjoy this server, and I would like to thank all of the mods for their time putting up with a lot of crap.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2017 18:17:22 GMT
Yeah, enchanted items (including tools, books, and potions, for example) don't retain their enchantments when the chest they were in gets rolled back.
Moderators (to my knowledge) do have access to creative (note that this doesn't include Helper+ or Helper) and can replace missing stuff, however, they can only do this if and when they know for sure what enchantments were on the item. For example if you have a chest full of mending books that is clearly labeled "Mending Books", that can get replaced. If you have a chest with a bunch of random books, things get a bit more complicated, and if they can't be certain about what the enchantments were, not replacing it is often all they can really do.
The shopping district isn't ran by the staff, so I can't say it's exactly the staff's responsibility to tell you, but I do agree that people should be made well aware of the risk involved in having a trust based shop one way or another.
The plugins we currently use don't offer any good/easy/secure trading functionality, but Ken did mention that it could possibly be done using signs earlier today. I'm not really in a position to properly answer that question though.
All in all though, I think this will have to be discussed and ironed out eventually, as it has become an issue. I'd encourage anyone with suggestions to chime in here. Also please correct me if I'm wrong on anything I said.
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Post by FireSafetyDoggo on Apr 2, 2017 19:13:33 GMT
It is completely ppssiable to run a sign shop the issue is its not on the server right now and I dont know if it would hurt the semi vanilla status we have right now... If it does not then I am totaly willing to spear head a shopping district for sign shops only... I have a excellent background with sign shops and they are much more secure... With that being said.. Unfortunately it is difficult with special items to give back... What I think should be done personally would be to have chests designated to one thing and maybe we can see if giving the payment for said theft from creative mode would be the best option...
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Post by squee755 on Apr 2, 2017 19:33:55 GMT
Thanks for the info Veil!
If mods have access to Creative and can replace enchanted items, I have photos that I took on my phone of the enchanted tools that I put in my chest the day that I stocked them. I can upload them if that would help.
Going forward, I was planning to advertise my tools on signs in my shops with the exact enchantments on them, but not keep them stocked and leave instructions for players to msg me if they want to buy one. However, that's not a very convenient method for buyers, and therefore, not the best way for me to make sales while I'm offline. If I specifically label my chests with each enchantment and keep individual tools separate, can/will Mods with access to Creative mode replace them? That would be ideal for me, with the given system.
I feel like a plugin for secure trading would be a nice addition to the server. As I said before, the Shopping District is a very popular feature, but also a focal point for a lot of trouble. I think it would fall under the same umbrella as the claims plug in to protect players from grief—something that provides security and benefits play experience without really changing the nature of vanilla survival.
What is a 'sign shop' and how does it work?
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Post by primustheone on Apr 2, 2017 19:34:11 GMT
Squee, thank you for posting this. I was planning on opening a trust based shop, and wasn't aware of the enchanted item issue.
Also, please don't be discouraged. This really is an an exceptional server.
I have two thoughts on this:
Is there a way to set up a red stone shop for players? (They would have to pay for it with diamonds or emeralds, of course so we could keep our semi-vanilla status). That would go a long way toward encouraging shops and reducing frustration.
However, a trust-based shop is an excellent way to weed out undesirables.... Put all sorts of warning signs about stealing=perma ban..and if someone steals, we instantly know they shouldn't be part of our community.
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Post by squee755 on Apr 2, 2017 19:42:47 GMT
Primustheone, I'm discouraged with my shop atm, so I'm leaving it closed for the time being because I don't want to deal with it just yet. But I am enjoying the server  My understanding of red stone shops is that it doesn't allow for all types of trades. Its very good for 1:1 trades, like 1 diamond for 1 block of emerald. But can it be set up for something like 2 diamonds for 64 leather? or 1 diamond for 9 stacks of cobble? As for the undesirables... they already have plenty of signs warning them about the consequences of stealing, but they do it anyway. I don't think that particular issue can or will be solved with trust-based shops the way they are. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2017 19:57:56 GMT
Quote wall here I come! Thanks for the info Veil! No problem. If mods have access to Creative and can replace enchanted items, I have photos that I took on my phone of the enchanted tools that I put in my chest the day that I stocked them. I can upload them if that would help. Perhaps. While I personally can't guarantee you anything, I'd try bring that up to a moderator for sure. Going forward, I was planning to advertise my tools on signs in my shops with the exact enchantments on them, but not keep them stocked and leave instructions for players to msg me if they want to buy one. However, that's not a very convenient method for buyers, and therefore, not the best way for me to make sales while I'm offline. If I specifically label my chests with each enchantment and keep individual tools separate, can/will Mods with access to Creative mode replace them? That would be ideal for me, with the given system. Once again, I can't guarantee you anything here, but that's how I have (or had, since one of the two enchanted items chests is now out of stock) it set up and I always got it replaced without issues. I feel like a plugin for secure trading would be a nice addition to the server. As I said before, the Shopping District is a very popular feature, but also a focal point for a lot of trouble. I think it would fall under the same umbrella as the claims plug in to protect players from grief—something that provides security and benefits play experience without really changing the nature of vanilla survival. Server listing websites aren't always as agreeable. I think the /rtp command was removed for the exact reason that it made the server 'not semi-vanilla', while the pressure plate thing was fine (since it uses a command block?). What is a 'sign shop' and how does it work? To my understanding it's essentially just a sign you right-click to automatically do the trade for you. Think of it as a big redstone shop compacted into a sign if that makes it easier. I'm not sure on the specifics as I've never worked with it myself. Is there a way to set up a red stone shop for players? (They would have to pay for it with diamonds or emeralds, of course so we could keep our semi-vanilla status). That would go a long way toward encouraging shops and reducing frustration. Not entirely sure what exactly you mean by this, but even redstone shops aren't perfect for what it's worth. It takes a lot of space to automate what really is a simple action, and they're still not entirely fool-proof. For example, in most redstone shops people can still fill up the hopper with junk that isn't the payment, or accidentally drop in too few or too many diamonds and not get they're money's worth out of the machine. However, a trust-based shop is an excellent way to weed out undesirables.... Put all sorts of warning signs about stealing=perma ban..and if someone steals, we instantly know they shouldn't be part of our community. Good point, though given that the shopping district is such a concentrated area it may do more damage than it's worth to weed such people out. Food for thought though. |
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Post by Yaoigirl666 on Apr 2, 2017 21:56:02 GMT
are you able to make a eedstone hopper shope? since i hear the trust shopes are getting stolen so much. all i ever here is the shoping district this and that...and nothing good has ever been said...in a way im glad im not shoped up there for these reasons...but i YouTubed how to redstone a shope so that there cant be theft....i sudjest trying that for the "good" that cant be rolled back
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2017 2:56:28 GMT
are you able to make a eedstone hopper shope? since i hear the trust shopes are getting stolen so much. all i ever here is the shoping district this and that...and nothing good has ever been said...in a way im glad im not shoped up there for these reasons...but i YouTubed how to redstone a shope so that there cant be theft....i sudjest trying that for the "good" that cant be rolled back Well, yes, you're able to make a redstone based shop. You have limited space to work with though, so if you plan on selling a lot it might be impossible to use a redstone based shop design. Also, for what it's worth, the shopping district is a pretty cool place. Of course you'll hear the negatives more than the positives, people aren't going to moan about making sales or having bought something after all. It's not all sunshine, but it's not all rain either. |
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Post by squee755 on Apr 3, 2017 22:29:40 GMT
I make good money on most of my stuff. Its the enchanted items that are proving to be a bit of a hassle.
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Post by Yaoigirl666 on Apr 4, 2017 11:07:47 GMT
veil....the server is mostly rain so shut up lmao....and ya i can see what you mean by dize limiting the redstone shop...there should be a better way to keep your shops safe though cuz it expensive in xp to make enchanted items all the time
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