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Post by Bandit_Toaster on May 15, 2019 17:56:55 GMT
Anti-trust rules as the name suggest is similar to anti-trust laws. These laws are there to prevent monoplies from forming in order to avert a complete privatization of any means of resource or production by any one individual or group of individuals. I propose we implement rules in game to prevent the creation of these monoplies do to the fact that Today a certain player went out of his way to purchase all rare End resouces available in the shopping district and started a campain for player to sell to them all there shulker boxes and shells. This Can potentialy cause a crisis in terms of supply for shulkers leading to artificial inflation of the boxes meaning that extreamly high prices for boxes will become a reality. this example is not make belief and is based on real world example such as the diamond industry and light buld industry of the 1920.
My hopes are to see the following rules in some way, shape or form.
No one player or group of player may colaborate to purchase more then 50% off all the rare or extreamly rare resources from the shopping district or nether shops in less then 1 months time.
Anyone found trying to create a monopoly be banned from the shopping district 1 month for first offence 3 months for the second 6 for the third and 1 year following any offence after that.
No shop may sell more then 27 extreamly rare or 100 rare items at a time but rather must resupply as need be.
any rare resouce can be considered to be any item that all active player collectively dont have more then 10000 and cannot be produced.
any extreamly rare resource can be considered any item that all active players collectively dont have more then 500 at any given time and cannot be produced.
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Post by RyJam13 on May 15, 2019 18:45:57 GMT
I agree wholeheartedly that having a monopoly of any kind makes the entire server much less attractive for new player. I understand that there are a certain amount of rights that the more veteran players should be entitled to because of their dedication toy can, and time spent on, the server. However. Having almost exclusive access to very finite resources just because they want to or in order to further expand their already significant virtual wealth. I don't believe that this should be implemented for everything, only the resources such as shulkers, elytra, beacons, etc. that are not common. I think this is an amazing idea that would significantly impact a majority of the server and only have a negative effect on a few. While negatively impacting any players experience by implementing new rules is generally a poor choice, but when said players are creating a negative impact on most of the server it may be worth the negative that it would cause.
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Post by cptchlorox on May 15, 2019 18:49:46 GMT
I don't see this as an issue, because the beauty of it is that you don't have to purchase things in game. Unlike in the real world where there are patents and many business functions are proprietary, there's always other ways to get the items you need than from a shop in the shopping district. Even if every shop is sold out because of some ambitious player with deep pockets, you can still farm or collect items yourself. Setting up regulations for customers and shop owners seems too complicated, and that sort of defeats the purpose of keeping the server simple.
I agree that it can be frustrating if one player is buying all the items at a shop or even across the district, but sales are sales. I don't think the server should put limits or tell anyone who they can or cannot buy from, and I don't think that the server should have to tell shop owners who they can and can not sell to. The rules you suggested, I believe, require a lot of effort to enforce and are unfair to everyone. If a certain shop owner doesn't want players buying all of the items that they are selling, they should either raise their prices or implement what many shops have with a "one per day" or "one per person" rule.
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2019 19:36:08 GMT
Today a certain player went out of his way to purchase all rare End resouces available in the shopping district and started a campain for player to sell to them all there shulker boxes and shells. This Can potentialy cause a crisis in terms of supply for shulkers leading to artificial inflation of the boxes meaning that extreamly high prices for boxes will become a reality. this example is not make belief and is based on real world example such as the diamond industry and light buld industry of the 1920. This situation sounds familiar. Allegedly, I have heard that previously, a player who no longer plays on the server had several double chests of Elytras, which was why the server was in an Elytra shortage. Once again, I'm not sure if that information is true, since I have heard of that last year. At that time, Elytra prices were very high due to how rare it was to see it being sold in shops. The End was reset with the 1.13 update, which significantly lowered the prices. Several months later, it is harder now to find Elytras but it isn't impossible, therefore prices may have increased again. There are some players who really like to have a high supply of items, and there have been times where I have bought out shops specifically looking for one item. No one player or group of player may colaborate to purchase more then 50% off all the rare or extreamly rare resources from the shopping district or nether shops in less then 1 months time. Anyone found trying to create a monopoly be banned from the shopping district 1 month for first offence 3 months for the second 6 for the third and 1 year following any offence after that. I can definitely understand that it's frustrating, but I don't think players should be banned for something that really isn't against the rules. There are other ways to help with this situation, like what Bleach said here: If a certain shop owner doesn't want players buying all of the items that they are selling, they should either raise their prices or implement what many shops have with a "one per day" or "one per person" rule. This is something that I've noticed lately, players have been setting limits on how many times a player can purchase an item within a certain time period. Banning players from the Shopping District for gathering a large amount of a rare item doesn't seem very reasonable. No shop may sell more then 27 extreamly rare or 100 rare items at a time but rather must resupply as need be. Placing restrictions on selling rare items? I really don't understand why. This takes away the player's right to sell whatever they choose. any rare resouce can be considered to be any item that all active player collectively dont have more then 10000 and cannot be produced. any extreamly rare resource can be considered any item that all active players collectively dont have more then 500 at any given time and cannot be produced. Again, I understand the frustration, but I still don't get why there should be limits on selling any item. This seems to be a situation that doesn't need any intervention. |
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Post by RyJam13 on May 15, 2019 20:46:35 GMT
I think you are missing the point. It's not about most items, only the ones that cannot be accessed easily or are in a very limited supply. It's actually about allowing anyone to sell these items, not restricting how many can sell it. I'm not sure that imposing a limit on the variety of items sold would help but I think there should definitely be protection against allowing some of the more veteran players stockpiling resources to the point that no one else can get them. This only serves to make it more difficult for new players. It's supposed to be a survival server but allowing people to unnecessarily stockpile resources that they may never use just to say that they have it.
Again this is only my opinion. I can however vouch for the fact that after 6 months on the server I have EXTREMELY limited access to many materials that should not be as difficult to obtain at this point.
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Post by Choo_Imperium on May 15, 2019 21:36:38 GMT
First come, First serve.
(However I do think there should be a limit on how many of an item (elytras) a single player can own for personal use, but eh)
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Post by Bandit_Toaster on May 15, 2019 22:29:08 GMT
This proposition is not to stop the sale of any items its simply to prevent monopolies on certain resources most notably end city items such wings which cannot respawn. Further more the restock as needed rule only serves to prevent a massive buyouts at times such as 5am to 8am london time when most players are not logged in.
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2019 23:02:26 GMT
My personal opinion on the matter and if or how it should be dealt with aside, this is unreasonable to moderate. Rules don't do anything if they're not enforced, and enforcing such rules is completely unreasonable for those who are supposed to enforce them.
It's up to sellers to sell their goods with this type of stuff in mind in mind if they care about it.
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Post by Admin on May 16, 2019 9:35:19 GMT
I think with the shopping district, the shop owners have made the choice that they don't care who and how much of their stock is bought by any particular player. If they wish to, they may choose to not stock up their shop with those rare items and instead sell them by hand. The resources can be obtained by natural means anyhow. I really don't see how this monopoly will actually succeed unless they farm the entire end world until it's empty, but in any case, the end is nowhere near close to being empty and we reset it every so often anyway to avoid this.
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Post by SnuRRe0 on May 16, 2019 14:41:05 GMT
I don't believe that this should be implemented for everything, only the resources such as shulkers, elytra, beacons, etc. that are not common. Beacons are fully obtainable, if you out in some effort. It's an end game item. |
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Post by RyJam13 on May 16, 2019 15:01:00 GMT
I don't believe that this should be implemented for everything, only the resources such as shulkers, elytra, beacons, etc. that are not common. Beacons are fully obtainable, if you out in some effort. It's an end game item. The issue with beacons is the mob cap and the difficulty getting any wider skeletons to even spawn in the first place. For those who have spent 20+ hours slabbing the nether around a fortress that's a different story but for the average player the spawn cap mixed with the amount of players that are always on with whom the mob cap is shared making it less feasible than normal. That being said I still believe that there are many finite resources that are difficult to get even in the best circumstances. |
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Post by T3PlaysMC on May 16, 2019 18:03:34 GMT
im flattered you guys made a forum post against what i was doing, but buying every shulker isnt against the game rules, nor should it be, because simply im buying it from players, its their choice to sell it. You cant force a player not to sell something.
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Post by RyJam13 on May 16, 2019 18:28:55 GMT
im flattered you guys made a forum post against what i was doing, but buying every shulker isnt against the game rules, nor should it be, because simply im buying it from players, its their choice to sell it. You cant force a player not to sell something. Once again. It's not saying you can't sell it. It's saying you can't but all of it. The U.S. and many other legitimate governments implement similar laws/ rules with real life currency to avoid monopolies (monopolies hurt all but a select few so that those few can benefit immensely). Simplex is online, yes. It is not real money, correct. But the same principle applies. This type of behaviour, if allowed, will only serve to push away potential new players, just like it almost did to myself and several others I know of. Please take note as well that the only people who have come out against this are long time players (who are a very powerful but small minority) while those in favor are almost everyone else. I understand fully that this would place some extra limits on long time players (the limit being how many items of a certain type can be BOUGHT at a time and has nothing to do with selling). However this would assist in growing the player base and creating an overall good playing environment for the majority of current players as well as newcomers. I apologize sincerely if it comes across as if I'm trying to attack anyone, since that is not my intention. I ask only that those with the "power/authority" to implement this type of rule seriously consider doing so and weigh the potential risks versus rewards. Thank you to all who have kept up with my rants and I hope this clears things up slightly. |
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Post by Admin on May 17, 2019 9:14:38 GMT
im flattered you guys made a forum post against what i was doing, but buying every shulker isnt against the game rules, nor should it be, because simply im buying it from players, its their choice to sell it. You cant force a player not to sell something. Once again. It's not saying you can't sell it. It's saying you can't but all of it. The U.S. and many other legitimate governments implement similar laws/ rules with real life currency to avoid monopolies (monopolies hurt all but a select few so that those few can benefit immensely). Simplex is online, yes. It is not real money, correct. But the same principle applies. This type of behaviour, if allowed, will only serve to push away potential new players, just like it almost did to myself and several others I know of. Please take note as well that the only people who have come out against this are long time players (who are a very powerful but small minority) while those in favor are almost everyone else. I understand fully that this would place some extra limits on long time players (the limit being how many items of a certain type can be BOUGHT at a time and has nothing to do with selling). However this would assist in growing the player base and creating an overall good playing environment for the majority of current players as well as newcomers. I apologize sincerely if it comes across as if I'm trying to attack anyone, since that is not my intention. I ask only that those with the "power/authority" to implement this type of rule seriously consider doing so and weigh the potential risks versus rewards. Thank you to all who have kept up with my rants and I hope this clears things up slightly. I don't take any offence at what you're saying. This discussion is good. Keep in mind though that the shopping district is entirely player-run and player-made so the same process which allows you to buy and sell goods 10x more efficiently than normal is also the cause of the problem you are pointing out. I think everyone can agree that we'd rather have a shopping district with monopolies than no shopping district at all right? Another thing I want to point out is this server is supposed to be as close to vanilla as possible. If monopolies are incentivizing more vanilla gameplay, it shouldn't be discouraging to newer players as you are pointing out. In saying that though, I actually don't like that players are attempting to do this but I really don't think it's possible for this to happen as long as the server is providing equal oppurtunity to all players to acquire these rare items. |
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Post by WizardOfBros on May 17, 2019 9:25:51 GMT
Me as a shop owner and with a bit knowledge about IRL economy and minecraft economy don't think it's needed to avoid monopolies.
It's quit hard for a server of this size to create a monopoly.
All blocks are imo quit easy to farm (Except perhaps tridents but still all people can create their own trident farm).
And good luck with mining all the clay/quartz ingame.
For example in 1.14 we can even buy clay (And perhaps quartz to) from villagers.
So it will get harder and harder to get the rare items all by yourself!
Also it's a free economy, and restricting it will make it not free anymore.
It's a sport to become the most profitable shop in the server by getting a tactic/strategy that works good for you:
- Make huge farms (Crops, mobdrops)
- Grinding blocks people need a lot (Wood for example)
- Buying other stocks out and reselling it with profit (But then the shops you buy from make profit to)
- End raiding
- Village raiding (With 1.14)
So in my opinion restrictions for shops are "bad".
Like you don't have to buy shulker boxes (You can farm them yourself), you don't have to buy tridents (You can farm the yourself).
The end will get resets when it's needed.
And it's quit hard to get a monopoly in minecraft.
And if you do well congratz you put a lot's of effort in it and made other players rich to.
Edit:
Even for new players it's quit easy to farm diamonds (Just strip mine or put effort in it).
Getting a stack of diamonds each week is possible with just playing 1 hour each day.
Then you can afford enough things in the shopping district.
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