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Post by FireSafetyDoggo on Apr 12, 2018 1:39:32 GMT
If there is an end reset I will not build another spleef arena plain and simple. Took a long time to build by hand and in the end it's not worth it to me to do it again. The end reset is pointless because in another 6 months or maybe even less everyone will start bitching that they can't find anything good in the end. Then the end gets reset and repeat. Another issue is the fact that some people auctually take time to find the valuables and then sell them. Resetting the end will in the end ruin the economy and if I were one of the people that sell those items I would be pissed. So in the end I vote no.
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Post by thesavior76 on Apr 12, 2018 4:09:44 GMT
If there is an end reset I will not build another spleef arena plain and simple. Took a long time to build by hand and in the end it's not worth it to me to do it again. The end reset is pointless because in another 6 months or maybe even less everyone will start bitching that they can't find anything good in the end. Then the end gets reset and repeat. Another issue is the fact that some people auctually take time to find the valuables and then sell them. Resetting the end will in the end ruin the economy and if I were one of the people that sell those items I would be pissed. So in the end I vote no. So, first issue. Most of these "valuables" are over priced. Why? Supply and demand. Like, it's sad that there's basically a monopoly on those items. Which is just unfair, and we can't have a server reset. It would be nice to give players an opportunity to have a fair chance. Btw it took me 45 minutes to find an unlooted city. So, yes it's not too hard to find the stuff. You can save your builds I'm pretty sure of that. I used to have a folder and we'd just re-upload everything. I'll get that info for you, haven't been a mod in years lol. Also, by creating a surplus that'll ruin the economy? Lol. It'll make it more balanced and fair. More players will be selling end items. This has only benefits in this regard. |
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Post by toasterD00M on Apr 12, 2018 4:16:53 GMT
At this point though, I'm kind of over elytras as necessary, so any decision you guys come to is alright with me. Just tell me before we reset, so I don't /home into the void! XD
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2018 14:28:47 GMT
it's sad that there's basically a monopoly on those items. Which is just unfair, and we can't have a server reset. There is no monopoly on these items. There is people that didn't spend much time and effort on getting these items, and there is people that spent a lot of time and effort getting these items. The end still has plenty of loot left. See my first post. It would be nice to give players an opportunity to have a fair chance. Everyone has a fair chance. Only a very small amount of people looted easy to get to end cities barely any out, and those people still have to do the same now as everyone else. Was it easier at one point? Yeah, sure it was. But not by that much. And only for a very small amount of people. Also, by creating a surplus that'll ruin the economy? Lol. It'll make it more balanced and fair. More players will be selling end items. This has only benefits in this regard. It's a very double edged sword. Yes cheap things are nice, but things still have to make sense. Look at mending books for crying out loud. 2 diamonds for one nowadays. That's just silly cheap. Being brand new and voting on both sites as soon as you join can get you a mending book. That's pretty broken. Especially considering gunpowder for example goes for 9 - 14 diamonds a stack. Things being stupid cheap is neither balanced nor fair. You can already get an elytra for 35 diamonds if you don't fall for a scam. |
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Post by thesavior76 on Apr 12, 2018 15:28:40 GMT
it's sad that there's basically a monopoly on those items. Which is just unfair, and we can't have a server reset. There is no monopoly on these items. There is people that didn't spend much time and effort on getting these items, and there is people that spent a lot of time and effort getting these items. The end still has plenty of loot left. See my first post. It would be nice to give players an opportunity to have a fair chance. Everyone has a fair chance. Only a very small amount of people looted easy to get to end cities barely any out, and those people still have to do the same now as everyone else. Was it easier at one point? Yeah, sure it was. But not by that much. And only for a very small amount of people. Also, by creating a surplus that'll ruin the economy? Lol. It'll make it more balanced and fair. More players will be selling end items. This has only benefits in this regard. It's a very double edged sword. Yes cheap things are nice, but things still have to make sense. Look at mending books for crying out loud. 2 diamonds for one nowadays. That's just silly cheap. Being brand new and voting on both sites as soon as you join can get you a mending book. That's pretty broken. Especially considering gunpowder for example goes for 9 - 14 diamonds a stack. Things being stupid cheap is neither balanced nor fair. You can already get an elytra for 35 diamonds if you don't fall for a scam. I'm on my phone so it does the whole quote sadly. Anyways, i feel that gunpowder is expensive because it's hard to obtain. It's also used for TnT so blast mining and world damage probably plays a role. However, the obtaining of it is probably why it's so expensive. I agree it's a double edged sword, in terms of economics. Idk man, the very definition of monopoly is one firm having control of the market. In this case it's maybe 6 players who dominate this market. So in my own opinion there's defiantly a monopoly. Which, from their perspective i see their side. Time and effort spent, and danger factors defiantly effect that. I mean I'd do the same thing, however there's a supply issue. Which that is another issue with the prices. I see a solution for this though without a reset. We should have more competitions in the mean time. Start giving these items through spleef, or i even seen that there's a gladiator thread. I mean that defiantly destroys the "not working hard enough" argument. So maybe through that? Because i don't wanna see the end farm go, but it can be saved through world edit too. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2018 16:16:01 GMT
A stack of gunpowder isn't hard to obtain with a decent farm. I can easily get over 10 stacks of gunpowder a day with literally no effort. I just have to be around the farm. That's at least 90 diamonds worth. (Also no one in their right mind should use TNT for blast mining. That's a waste.)
And yes, there's only a small amount of people that do most of the end city hunting that's done, but that's not because they have a monopoly on it. It's because other people don't bother with it. You can't call it a monopoly if the supposed monopoly holders don't make it or cause it to be harder for others to get into the market. It's simply a matter of others not doing it even though they could. Also even if it's just 6 players that do 90% of it, that's still not really what I'd call a monopoly. 6 parties competing means none of them hold a monopoly. It's a free market. Everyone can do it.
There is also no supply issue. People don't NEED elytras. They WANT elytras. said elytras ARE obtainable with some effort (again, see my first post). People not selling them for whatever reason they have for that is irrelevant when they are obtainable without too much effort. If people want one and no one is selling (at reasonable prices), they should get their butts out there and get it themselves. This is supposedly a survival minecraft server. Not buy everything and complain if no one's selling enough of it.
This is exactly what I meant with my entire first post man. There is no actual issue here. People just think there is an issue.
Edit: Just to prove the point again I went end city raiding once again. This time I started at 0 0 in the end and did not exempt myself from the anti-cheat to make it as fair as possible. I came across 4 end cities (if you exclude the one literally right outside of the end gateway portal that would obviously be raided). Out of those 4 only one was raided, and two of the unraided ones contained elytras. Total time spent was about 40 minutes. Here's a video.
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Post by thesavior76 on Apr 12, 2018 20:16:59 GMT
I mean we'll just agree to disagree on the so called monopoly. I found a city rather fast too, and it's not too hard. However, what's the main issues of the reset? The building's can be saved via world edit, and it would satisfy the current disagreements. Also, there's suppliers and consumers, not everybody has enough ambition to be a supplier. We have a free market, in theory. But certain players whom i won't name charge absurd prices. If it was easy to obtain then for these people. Why charge so high? There needs to be some regulating there. Then there's this whole "it's a survival server." We have plenty of things that contradict that. I don't see the reset as being too needed at this time. However, it'll be soon where it will need to be. I just want genuine concerns besides. "Everybody is just lazy, and blah blah be proactive." If its the builds they can be preserved. As for the elytra economy, it's really not important. Those players can rebuild.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2018 21:36:29 GMT
I mean we'll just agree to disagree on the so called monopoly. I found a city rather fast too, and it's not too hard. However, what's the main issues of the reset? The building's can be saved via world edit, and it would satisfy the current disagreements. Also, there's suppliers and consumers, not everybody has enough ambition to be a supplier. We have a free market, in theory. But certain players whom i won't name charge absurd prices. If it was easy to obtain then for these people. Why charge so high? There needs to be some regulating there. Then there's this whole "it's a survival server." We have plenty of things that contradict that. I don't see the reset as being too needed at this time. However, it'll be soon where it will need to be. I just want genuine concerns besides. "Everybody is just lazy, and blah blah be proactive." If its the builds they can be preserved. As for the elytra economy, it's really not important. Those players can rebuild. Well, I guess we can agree to disagree on that specific matter then lol. Stuff can be saved, yeah, but for the few resets we did have this was never done. I'm also not sure if Meehan would even do that. I think just going with a periodical region file deletion based on last modified date is the way to go instead of a full reset though. But I guess that's just my opinion. A s for the absurd prices: people are silly. It's not gonna sell if it's priced too high anyway. Regulation isn't needed. This is an SMP. People can do whatever they please so long as it doesn't break the rules. The entire economy is a natural thing in the first place. Nothing about it is regulated. Nothing about it should be regulated. (With exceptions of donation items and illegal items of course. I'm also not considering naturally generated loot being out there as a part of the economy. That's an entirely different matter.)
What contradicts the "this is an smp" part? It's an smp. No it's note pure vanilla, but it's still a semi-vanilla smp to make it work as a public server and with the rules we have. Kind of a different topic entirely, but I'm not sure what you mean by that.
The economy is irrelevant so long as things are still reasonably obtainable. Things should not be reset because of market prices. Seriously. That's stupid. Also no overworld and nether structures have ever been reset. The builds aren't really the issue to me. The issue is that people want to reset an entire dimension (let that sink in) because of reasons that don't hold true. There is no genuine concerns from me against it, but there are valid reasons to not do this while there are no valid reasons to do this.
You don't seem to disagree with it being easy enough to get end city loot, yet you're more for a reset rather than against it because of some people's elytra prices... even though it's just SOME people that charge absurd prices for NO reason? Am I completely misunderstanding you or is your thought process plain nonsensical? Look, I've sold 2 elytras for 35D per today thanks to that video I made to once again prove the point. The previous time I went end city raiding I've sold 4 for 30D per. Where is the issue? Oh, right. People charging absurd prices for no reason. Yeah let's reset the end for that. So if I start charging absurd prices for sponge we're going to reset the overworld? Yes, that's a rediculously more extreme case to which you'd (hopefully) not have the same answer, but as far as I can tell this is what you're saying.
TL;DR Unless The economy should play ABSOLUTELY NO role in resets. ACTUAL AVAILABILITY should. We don't need drastic solutions to a problem that doesn't exist. |
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Post by cyrowind on Apr 12, 2018 23:20:40 GMT
Also no one in their right mind should use TNT for blast mining. That's a waste. I don't believe you can waste an unlimited item. Plus it's fun. |
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Post by thesavior76 on Apr 13, 2018 0:24:12 GMT
I mean we'll just agree to disagree on the so called monopoly. I found a city rather fast too, and it's not too hard. However, what's the main issues of the reset? The building's can be saved via world edit, and it would satisfy the current disagreements. Also, there's suppliers and consumers, not everybody has enough ambition to be a supplier. We have a free market, in theory. But certain players whom i won't name charge absurd prices. If it was easy to obtain then for these people. Why charge so high? There needs to be some regulating there. Then there's this whole "it's a survival server." We have plenty of things that contradict that. I don't see the reset as being too needed at this time. However, it'll be soon where it will need to be. I just want genuine concerns besides. "Everybody is just lazy, and blah blah be proactive." If its the builds they can be preserved. As for the elytra economy, it's really not important. Those players can rebuild. Well, I guess we can agree to disagree on that specific matter then lol. Stuff can be saved, yeah, but for the few resets we did have this was never done. I'm also not sure if Meehan would even do that. I think just going with a periodical region file deletion based on last modified date is the way to go instead of a full reset though. But I guess that's just my opinion.As for the absurd prices: people are silly. It's not gonna sell if it's priced too high anyway. Regulation isn't needed. This is an SMP. People can do whatever they please so long as it doesn't break the rules. The entire economy is a natural thing in the first place. Nothing about it is regulated. Nothing about it should be regulated. (With exceptions of donation items and illegal items of course. I'm also not considering naturally generated loot being out there as a part of the economy. That's an entirely different matter.) What contradicts the "this is an smp" part? It's an smp. No it's note pure vanilla, but it's still a semi-vanilla smp to make it work as a public server and with the rules we have. Kind of a different topic entirely, but I'm not sure what you mean by that. The economy is irrelevant so long as things are still reasonably obtainable. Things should not be reset because of market prices. Seriously. That's stupid. Also no overworld and nether structures have ever been reset. The builds aren't really the issue to me. The issue is that people want to reset an entire dimension (let that sink in) because of reasons that don't hold true. There is no genuine concerns from me against it, but there are valid reasons to not do this while there are no valid reasons to do this. You don't seem to disagree with it being easy enough to get end city loot, yet you're more for a reset rather than against it because of some people's elytra prices... even though it's just SOME people that charge absurd prices for NO reason? Am I completely misunderstanding you or is your thought process plain nonsensical? Look, I've sold 2 elytras for 35D per today thanks to that video I made to once again prove the point. The previous time I went end city raiding I've sold 4 for 30D per. Where is the issue? Oh, right. People charging absurd prices for no reason. Yeah let's reset the end for that. So if I start charging absurd prices for sponge we're going to reset the overworld? Yes, that's a rediculously more extreme case to which you'd (hopefully) not have the same answer, but as far as I can tell this is what you're saying. TL;DR Unless The economy should play ABSOLUTELY NO role in resets. ACTUAL AVAILABILITY should. We don't need drastic solutions to a problem that doesn't exist.
Okay, i highlighted just the main things i wanna talk on. Yeah, broach that to Meehan, i agree that it would be a better solution. Anyways, the end farm IMO, while being a great advantageous asset, is a contradiction to SMP. Take what you will with that, but i understand that's it Semi-Vanilla. However, your whole point seems to be pointing to how SMP revolves around working for items. Well....the end farm kinda makes things easy, no? That was basically your argument against the whole reset. The end farm makes getting levels easier. In your opinion it's easy to go out and get these things, yes it's somewhat easy because you just need to look. It just takes time, and honestly that's kinda not alluring to people. Anyways, i feel like i'm rambling so i'll move on. "People charging high prices because they can." Wannnnnnna know why? Take a good guess. Because they know they can charge whatever they want, because they have the supply. A dehydrated man would trade his soul for a glass of water. Yes, bit of an exaggeration because of the circumstances, but i hope you get my point. Yes, you charge a fair price, but some people don't charge that. The problem does exist, and it may not be severe, but it will be. It would be nice to start thinking ahead of the issue. I honestly believe resetting the end isn't needed. However, i feel like the time will come soon. I'm kinda on the fence because i understand, people want these end items, not just elytra. Yet there really just too expensive for the average player. If y'all wanna solve the elytra problem, use my earlier suggestion of giving them away in events. That would be fun, and challenge players to work for that prize. Anyways, what's your valid reasons for not resetting it. Exclude your opinion of "Well they should just work for it, and stop being lazy." Use actual evidence of why, i mean the builds can be saved. So that's one issue solved, so what's the real issue? I admin'd for a server and we could reset the end, granted this was way back before the end cities. I think people, mainly the new ones want a sense of new adventure in the end. I think a large problem form my perspective stems from not having a regulated economy. that's just another issue, that's really not worth discussing. At this very moment i don't think a reset is needed, but i think that comp idea should be considered. It'll defiantly take some stress of you guys, especially you. |
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Post by jendestroy on Apr 13, 2018 0:51:18 GMT
1. You can have end farms in vanilla.
2. Elytras are given away in events.
3. Does the average player even need an elytra?
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Post by thesavior76 on Apr 13, 2018 1:09:48 GMT
Well, more often like i've only seen a few events in my 8 months on here. THEN MAYBE PLAYERS SHOULD JUST BUILD THEIR OWN! Like, no dude.
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Post by thesavior76 on Apr 13, 2018 1:10:19 GMT
When i say average player jen, i mean people who login daily.
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Post by jendestroy on Apr 13, 2018 1:11:05 GMT
When i say average player jen, i mean people who login daily. I login daily, and I dont need an elytra. |
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Post by thesavior76 on Apr 13, 2018 1:13:27 GMT
When i say average player jen, i mean people who login daily. I login daily, and I dont need an elytra. Good for you. |
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